2009
This is pretty disgusting, as disgusting Right-wing Christian hatred goes:
Rick Warren Refuses To Condemn Proposed Ugandan Law To Execute Gays
Yes, the man President Obama got cozy with during and after the election, condones the murder of people on account of their sexual preferences alone. Warren generally distances himself from the Ugandan Pastor, Ssempa, saying “the Ugandan minister does not represent him or his church” but we have to remember Rick Warren’s own hateful past utterances:
Warren told Beliefnet that he thinks allowing a gay couple to marry is similar to allowing “a brother and sister to be together and call that marriage.” He then helpfully added that he’s also “opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage.” The reporter, who may have been a little surprised, asked, “Do you think those are equivalent to gays getting married?” “Oh, I do,”
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1867664,00.html#ixzz0YSVWnTSq
So yeah…Rick Warren thinks being gay is like being a pedophile. Of course, to some Vegans eating meat is like trafficking in human slaves (as some of you might remember I was so accused here) so idiocy and intolerance is by no means reserved to self-righteous thugs like Warren, but that’s no excuse. This is utterly reprehensible and I don’t think Warren’s excuses hold water:
But Warren won’t go so far as to condemn the legislation itself. A request for a broader reaction to the proposed Ugandan anti-homosexual laws generated this response: “The fundamental dignity of every person, our right to be free, and the freedom to make moral choices are gifts endowed by God, our creator. However, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations.” On Meet the Press this morning, he reiterated this neutral stance in a different context: “As a pastor, my job is to encourage, to support. I never take sides.” Warren did say he believed that abortion was “a holocaust.” He knows as well as anyone that in a case of great wrong, taking sides is an important thing to do.
Same attitude the Church took during the Nazi genocide of Europe’s Jews, Pagans, liberals, secularists, intellectuals, gypsies and others.
It always frightens and amazes me how after we rose from the shameful era of burn, kill and torture anyone who did not believe the same way we do, that there are still those who would espouse such evil actions. To quote their own scripture at them – thou shalt not kill…the actual hebrew is do not murder. I guess they percieve religious torture and execution as not murder, ergo the loophole??? Argh.
Btw, blog looks amazing – have been out of the loop for a bit with school, and am blown away by what you have done. One thought – the margin on the words in the main block is non-existant which makes reading a little uncertain. Is there a way to get a kitty whisker of a margin back on either side? Just a thought…still faithfully reading…
I think my damn blog is at war with me. Either the post area shrank or the text expanded, I swear… I'm looking into either a new template or relocating my domain to a new host and turning it into a WordPress blog with the same template. Something has got to give. Blogger is buggy.
Yeah, it's complete madness, Cameron. What he doesn't see is that he's saying the same thing Hitler did: It's okay to eradicate a group because you don't find them to be real people. For Hitler, the Jews, for Rick Warren, the gay and lesbian community.
He'd deny that they're the same thing, of course, but he'd be wrong.
Attendance at Warren's Saddleback Church will be around 20,000 on any given Sunday, and his influence reaches tens of thousands more through his "Purpose Driven" franchise.
Yet another example of why democracy will never work.
You know, I commented once on Digg that the Founding Fathers feared the mob. Unsurprisingly, a conservative took issue with me, saying that was never true. I invited him to read some history books but I know these people are uncomfortable with facts that challenge their ideology.
I'm very much afraid that I agree with you, that my own faith in democracy has been shaking by the rise in demagoguery -we can't call it populism – there are too few of them – but there are certainly enough to make a mob, as you point out. And a mob, as Benjamin Franklin said, and I paraphrase (in my mother's favorite quote), "a mob is a monster with many heads but no brains."
The Founding Fathers thought Democracy needed to be guided by principled men like themselves, educated and of the class of gentlemen, who were wealthy enough to be disinterested by graft. They didn't trust the masses to be qualified to govern themselves, and events, I think, have proven their fears well founded, and Franklin's observation astute.
Warren really pulled the wool over a lot of people's eyes with his "purpose driven" bilge. What he is saying now needs to be as widely publicized as possible — maybe some people will be able to learn something from this.
Apuleius, he really has. And I hate walking into my local Borders and seeing prominent display of that book. Unfortunately, despite claims to the contrary, the media isn't particularly liberal or left-of-center, but more generally right, and they don't report these sorts of things.
What if I oppose gay marriage simply because Obama does? Any problem with that?
I'd ask you, "If Obama endorsed jumping off very high cliffs, would you jump?"
Seriously, what kind of logic is that?
A bit of an update from Reuters: “U.S. Christian leaders slam Uganda’s anti-homosexuality act”
A diverse group of U.S. Christian leaders — who don’t always see eye to eye on same-sex lifestyle issues — have spoken out against a law under consideration in Uganda that could make homosexual behavior punishable by death. . . .
“Our Christian faith recognizes violence, harassment and unjust treatment of any human being as a betrayal of Jesus’ commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves. As followers of the teachings of Christ, we must express profound dismay at a bill currently before the Parliament in Uganda. The ‘Anti-Homosexuality Act of 2009′ would enforce lifetime prison sentences and in some cases the death penalty for homosexual behavior, as well as punish citizens for not reporting their gay and lesbian neighbors to the authorities,” it says in part.
Full story at http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/12/08/u-s-christian-leaders-slam-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-act/
And the thing is, in the early part of this decade, Obama once came out very strongly IN FAVOR OF gay marriage. There’s video on YouTube of him saying so, very openly and clearly. I’ll have to chase that video down and post it on my blog.
I’ve also noticed that Dr. Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, has also not come out against the Uganda “let’s kill the gays” legislation, which he has known about for about 2 months now….BUT when the Diocese of Los Angeles elected a lesbian bishop (she has yet to receive the consents to finalize the deal but it’s likely she’ll get them), he responded within 24 HOURS!!
So apparently who a woman sleeps with or does not sleep with is FAR more important than, well, the equivalent of genocide. Sanctioned by a country’s law, at least potentially speaking at this point.
Ye Gods.
Hruffankle,
I would not jump, but the Oba-maniacs would; most of which support gay marriage. This presents them with quite a dilemna on par with a Vegan having to choose between a hamburger or hotdog.
So, you think Obama is wrong on this issue? I thought he was the smartest president we ever had.
I have to disagree, Anonimuss (notice I don’t deliberately mangle your name).
There are many points of disagreement between progressives and Obama – who leans entirely too far to the Right for many of us. I don’t think it’s a choice of hamburger or hot dog. The issues are far more complex than that – and to what extent might Obama be toying with the Religious Right? Hard to say.
I think Obama was dead-wrong to support or accept support from the extremist Christians. I opposed it then, and told him so (who knows what he reads and doesn’t but I did tell him) and I oppose it now. I give him only a “B” grade because of his association with the hate mongers.
Thank you for the great post!
Thanks you, Zonia. I appreciate that.