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	<title>Comments on: Polytheism&#8217;s Tradition of Moderation</title>
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	<description>The Life and Thoughts of a Modern Day American Heathen</description>
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		<title>By: Hrafnkell Haraldsson</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1615</link>
		<dc:creator>Hrafnkell Haraldsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 11:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1615</guid>
		<description>Evritos, thanks for commenting. Religious extremism is unnatural in polytheism, as we both agree, and I would argue that it is any weakness or failing inherent in polytheism that is to blame but our imperfect modern co-religionists who must struggle with modern concepts (and the weight of 20 centuries of history) as they revive their ancient customs and traditions. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Polytheism should translate across cultural and ethnic borders. All gods exist. We can see our gods in the gods of others. We are united by our diversity. In the ancient world, polytheism did not translate into racism or nationalism. It transcended and overcame those barriers instead. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is why we must all be aware of the dangers of extremism and we must speak up and make clear to others (and especially to our children) that the struggle to re-establish ourselves is far from over. I feel, at times, that it&#039;s rather like the Roman struggle to absorb the &quot;barbarians&quot; - assimilation into new modes of thinking, into new thought modes, excising old baggage, is not easy. But then again, that is why I am here personally, and it is what drives me. And Solon&#039;s words would, as I believe I said before, be embraced by all polytheistic cultures of the ancient world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evritos, thanks for commenting. Religious extremism is unnatural in polytheism, as we both agree, and I would argue that it is any weakness or failing inherent in polytheism that is to blame but our imperfect modern co-religionists who must struggle with modern concepts (and the weight of 20 centuries of history) as they revive their ancient customs and traditions. </p>
<p>Polytheism should translate across cultural and ethnic borders. All gods exist. We can see our gods in the gods of others. We are united by our diversity. In the ancient world, polytheism did not translate into racism or nationalism. It transcended and overcame those barriers instead. </p>
<p>This is why we must all be aware of the dangers of extremism and we must speak up and make clear to others (and especially to our children) that the struggle to re-establish ourselves is far from over. I feel, at times, that it&#39;s rather like the Roman struggle to absorb the &quot;barbarians&quot; &#8211; assimilation into new modes of thinking, into new thought modes, excising old baggage, is not easy. But then again, that is why I am here personally, and it is what drives me. And Solon&#39;s words would, as I believe I said before, be embraced by all polytheistic cultures of the ancient world.</p>
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		<title>By: Evritos</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1604</link>
		<dc:creator>Evritos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1604</guid>
		<description>There has been a similar, marathon-like discussion occurring in the online Hellenic polytheist community on extremism as well. Unfortunately, the reality is that religious extremism is found in ALL religions, including paganism. The problem with ethnic religions, is that you see extremism taking the form of ethnic nationalism and often times racism. This is the case in Norse and even Greek religion, particularly in Greece at the moment due to the lack of separation of church and state.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, I believe that polytheism, philosophically speaking, cannot and should never support extremism of fundamentalist thinking. In Hellenic religion, we talk about POLYMORPHIA, or &quot;multiple forms&quot; as being an inherent part of the KOSMOS. This means that Nature, which everything in the KOSMOS is a part of, takes multiple forms of expression. Its the spiritual equivalent of biodiversity. We can see this principle in the different species of trees, animals, ideas, governments, languages, etc.....Religion is also part of that continuum and has to follow the same rules by default. So, while people can believe that their religion is the &quot;only true religion&quot;, its patently false because reality demonstrates the existence of diversity. An individual would have to deny or make up some ridiculous explanation to validate that view, and that&#039;s exactly what people do. However, its indefensible philosophically and objectively. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In any case, I&#039;m glad to see that other people are talking about this issue, because I think its becoming more and more pronounced in the world with everything thats been going on. Ever since this BS notion of the &quot;Clash of Civilizations&quot; was established during the Bush administration, we&#039;re seeing more and more of it being pumped out into civil society and its becoming &quot;normal&quot;. Extremism, in the religious fundamentalist sense, WAS NEVER NORMAL. Solon had it right, &quot;μηδέν άγαν&quot; - Nothing in Excess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There has been a similar, marathon-like discussion occurring in the online Hellenic polytheist community on extremism as well. Unfortunately, the reality is that religious extremism is found in ALL religions, including paganism. The problem with ethnic religions, is that you see extremism taking the form of ethnic nationalism and often times racism. This is the case in Norse and even Greek religion, particularly in Greece at the moment due to the lack of separation of church and state.</p>
<p>However, I believe that polytheism, philosophically speaking, cannot and should never support extremism of fundamentalist thinking. In Hellenic religion, we talk about POLYMORPHIA, or &quot;multiple forms&quot; as being an inherent part of the KOSMOS. This means that Nature, which everything in the KOSMOS is a part of, takes multiple forms of expression. Its the spiritual equivalent of biodiversity. We can see this principle in the different species of trees, animals, ideas, governments, languages, etc&#8230;..Religion is also part of that continuum and has to follow the same rules by default. So, while people can believe that their religion is the &quot;only true religion&quot;, its patently false because reality demonstrates the existence of diversity. An individual would have to deny or make up some ridiculous explanation to validate that view, and that&#39;s exactly what people do. However, its indefensible philosophically and objectively. </p>
<p>In any case, I&#39;m glad to see that other people are talking about this issue, because I think its becoming more and more pronounced in the world with everything thats been going on. Ever since this BS notion of the &quot;Clash of Civilizations&quot; was established during the Bush administration, we&#39;re seeing more and more of it being pumped out into civil society and its becoming &quot;normal&quot;. Extremism, in the religious fundamentalist sense, WAS NEVER NORMAL. Solon had it right, &quot;μηδέν άγαν&quot; &#8211; Nothing in Excess.</p>
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		<title>By: Hrafnkell Haraldsson</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1528</link>
		<dc:creator>Hrafnkell Haraldsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1528</guid>
		<description>Actually, Ali, I was perfectly willing to have a polite discussion here, but that was not happening. What was happening was preaching and condemnation of those who eat meat, and it is that preaching I suggested be taken elsewhere. But I appreciate you linking your post to this for those who are interested in following up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Ali, I was perfectly willing to have a polite discussion here, but that was not happening. What was happening was preaching and condemnation of those who eat meat, and it is that preaching I suggested be taken elsewhere. But I appreciate you linking your post to this for those who are interested in following up.</p>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1532</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1532</guid>
		<description>I realize this is a bit of an old post, but Hrafnkell&#039;s invitation that vegetarians write on their own blogs about their reasons led me to write a recent essay on the matter: &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://meadowsweet-myrrh.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-to-save-world-seven-pillars-of.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Seven Pillars of Vegetarianism&lt;/a&gt;.&quot; The piece explores biological, historical, environmental, political, ethical, psychological and spiritual reasons in support of vegetarianism (with a great deal of elaboration and response to critique in the comments that followed). I just wanted to invite him, and any other folks interested, to stop on by and join in the conversation. :) It&#039;s been amazingly interesting and polite (well, except for the one guy who said he might decide to start eating humans... ;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize this is a bit of an old post, but Hrafnkell&#39;s invitation that vegetarians write on their own blogs about their reasons led me to write a recent essay on the matter: &quot;<a href="http://meadowsweet-myrrh.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-to-save-world-seven-pillars-of.html" rel="nofollow">Seven Pillars of Vegetarianism</a>.&quot; The piece explores biological, historical, environmental, political, ethical, psychological and spiritual reasons in support of vegetarianism (with a great deal of elaboration and response to critique in the comments that followed). I just wanted to invite him, and any other folks interested, to stop on by and join in the conversation. <img src='http://aheathensday.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  It&#39;s been amazingly interesting and polite (well, except for the one guy who said he might decide to start eating humans&#8230; <img src='http://aheathensday.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1489</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1489</guid>
		<description>No problem. I was taught as a child that everyone should get their chance to politely express their viewpoint. Respect is never gained by militancy or yelling, so why waste the energy? (Sarcasm and wit, on the other hand are entertaining.) That rudeness abounds on the internet is disquieting. You might think you&#039;re anonymous, but if you act like that to people you don&#039;t know, how do you act in face to face conversation? I shudder to think. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for your kind words! I&#039;ll be lurking about in the future, I&#039;m sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem. I was taught as a child that everyone should get their chance to politely express their viewpoint. Respect is never gained by militancy or yelling, so why waste the energy? (Sarcasm and wit, on the other hand are entertaining.) That rudeness abounds on the internet is disquieting. You might think you&#39;re anonymous, but if you act like that to people you don&#39;t know, how do you act in face to face conversation? I shudder to think. </p>
<p>Thanks for your kind words! I&#39;ll be lurking about in the future, I&#39;m sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Hrafnkell Haraldsson</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1486</link>
		<dc:creator>Hrafnkell Haraldsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1486</guid>
		<description>I second Indrani&#039;s comments, Elizabeth. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second Indrani&#39;s comments, Elizabeth. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us!</p>
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		<title>By: Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1487</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1487</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You&#039;ve been the first vegetarian in the comments section here, to have spoken with consideration for the other side (omnivores and meat-eaters). I enjoyed reading your comment especially the correct dietary facts, and wish there were more vegetarians who thought like you. :-)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for posting your response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth,</p>
<p>You&#39;ve been the first vegetarian in the comments section here, to have spoken with consideration for the other side (omnivores and meat-eaters). I enjoyed reading your comment especially the correct dietary facts, and wish there were more vegetarians who thought like you. <img src='http://aheathensday.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Thank you for posting your response.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1474</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1474</guid>
		<description>Cheeks, since you asked for a non judgmental comment by a vegetarian, here we go:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am a vegetarian. No, I don&#039;t care if you eat meat, since my self-imposed dietary restrictions are personal choice. As an anthropology major, I know definitively I&#039;m going against the human biological imperative of being an omnivore. The only feature that makes humans an apex predator is our mind. We have no fangs or claws to speak of. Nor any of the usual mammalian protections, such as thick hide. (Though, on the point about our intestines, longer intestines are a sign of a diet rich in plant material. Apes have longer intestines due to the size of their torsos, relative to ours. We stand upright, have longer legs, and a lighter torso, therefore our intestines are not quite as long. Compared to an obligate carnivore, such as the large cats, our digestive system is very different.) My dietary choice is bit for ethical reasons, true. A lot of it is because I don&#039;t like giving money to corporations I don&#039;t like. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have no problem with subsistence hunting. In fact, I find it much more admirable than the disconnect most people have when it comes to food. (Trophy hunting is something else entirely.) &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I admire folks who can, and do, grow their own food, including the raising of livestock. It takes a lot of time and energy. I especially like the farmers who give their animals access to land. It makes for healthier animals, which makes for healthier food. If I had the means I would do this myself. Chemicals, hormones, and antibiotics used in industrial farming are a whole different business, and not something I look too kindly on.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Unfortunately, as with zealots of any stripe, the loudest and most vocal adherents are the ones who get the most attention and give the rest a bad name. This happens all the time. Which brings me back to the topic of the original post. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Moderation in all things. I wish more people held to this principle. I agree that in many historical cases polytheism was a bastion of moderation. Especially when it came to religious beliefs. Even when the Romans conquered other peoples, they did not force the worship of their pantheon on those defeated. Tribute, oftentimes, yes. (Which is what the early Christians got into some trouble over.) The exchange of deities is what happened the most. The cults of Isis and Mithras are prime examples. Even more often they saw the native gods as extensions, or just different names for their own dieties, such as in Gaul. That said, there have been times when polytheism was not so tolerant. It can be argued, though, that that was in retaliation to a form of monotheism, more than anything else.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If I have missed anything, or made any mistakes, you&#039;re welcome to point them out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheeks, since you asked for a non judgmental comment by a vegetarian, here we go:</p>
<p>I am a vegetarian. No, I don&#39;t care if you eat meat, since my self-imposed dietary restrictions are personal choice. As an anthropology major, I know definitively I&#39;m going against the human biological imperative of being an omnivore. The only feature that makes humans an apex predator is our mind. We have no fangs or claws to speak of. Nor any of the usual mammalian protections, such as thick hide. (Though, on the point about our intestines, longer intestines are a sign of a diet rich in plant material. Apes have longer intestines due to the size of their torsos, relative to ours. We stand upright, have longer legs, and a lighter torso, therefore our intestines are not quite as long. Compared to an obligate carnivore, such as the large cats, our digestive system is very different.) My dietary choice is bit for ethical reasons, true. A lot of it is because I don&#39;t like giving money to corporations I don&#39;t like. </p>
<p>I have no problem with subsistence hunting. In fact, I find it much more admirable than the disconnect most people have when it comes to food. (Trophy hunting is something else entirely.) </p>
<p>I admire folks who can, and do, grow their own food, including the raising of livestock. It takes a lot of time and energy. I especially like the farmers who give their animals access to land. It makes for healthier animals, which makes for healthier food. If I had the means I would do this myself. Chemicals, hormones, and antibiotics used in industrial farming are a whole different business, and not something I look too kindly on.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, as with zealots of any stripe, the loudest and most vocal adherents are the ones who get the most attention and give the rest a bad name. This happens all the time. Which brings me back to the topic of the original post. </p>
<p>Moderation in all things. I wish more people held to this principle. I agree that in many historical cases polytheism was a bastion of moderation. Especially when it came to religious beliefs. Even when the Romans conquered other peoples, they did not force the worship of their pantheon on those defeated. Tribute, oftentimes, yes. (Which is what the early Christians got into some trouble over.) The exchange of deities is what happened the most. The cults of Isis and Mithras are prime examples. Even more often they saw the native gods as extensions, or just different names for their own dieties, such as in Gaul. That said, there have been times when polytheism was not so tolerant. It can be argued, though, that that was in retaliation to a form of monotheism, more than anything else.</p>
<p>If I have missed anything, or made any mistakes, you&#39;re welcome to point them out.</p>
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		<title>By: Hrafnkell Haraldsson</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1437</link>
		<dc:creator>Hrafnkell Haraldsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1437</guid>
		<description>Well said, Acid Queen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Acid Queen.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheeks</title>
		<link>http://aheathensday.com/2009/09/polytheisms-tradition-of-moderation.html#comment-1419</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 01:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=1046#comment-1419</guid>
		<description>Acid Queen,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for putting it so simply and so well. :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Acid Queen,</p>
<p>Thank you for putting it so simply and so well. <img src='http://aheathensday.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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