Comments on: One Thousand Posts and Counting http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html The Life and Thoughts of a Modern Day American Heathen Mon, 07 May 2012 01:49:50 -0400 hourly 1 By: Ulfrun http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-995 Ulfrun Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:24:07 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-995 Gran, yes the Althing has many democratic aspects but most modern democracies and republics (which is actually what the USA is, a representative republic) are based on Greek and Roman models. Gran, yes the Althing has many democratic aspects but most modern democracies and republics (which is actually what the USA is, a representative republic) are based on Greek and Roman models.

]]> By: Hrafnkell Haraldsson http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-994 Hrafnkell Haraldsson Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:43:55 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-994 Hello, Quercus, and thank you. Jan Assmann is a German scholar and well worth reading. I first encountered his views on monotheism in Jan Assman “The Mosaic Distinction: Israel, Egypt, and the Invention of Paganism,” <i>Representations</i> 56 (1996). He repeats the idea in an article appearing Sarah Iles Johnston, ed. <i>Ancient Religions</i> (2007). Here he states in relation to what he calls "revolutionary monotheism", "This form of monotheism manifests itself in the first place as a negative or counterreligion, defining what god is <i>not</i> and how god should <i>not</i> be worshiped."<br /><br />He goes on to say that "Biblical monotheism is based not on evidence but on revelation. It is not a matter of cognition but of commitment. It requires adherents to make a conscious decision to accept revealed truth and reject deceitful evidence. Natural evidence is debunked as seduction, as luring people away from revealed truth into the traps and pitfalls of the false gods, that is, the world" (pp. 28-29).<br /><br />You might also read his book <i>Moses the Egyptian: The Memory of Moses in Western Monotheism,</i> where, if I remember correctly, he makes the same argument. Hello, Quercus, and thank you. Jan Assmann is a German scholar and well worth reading. I first encountered his views on monotheism in Jan Assman “The Mosaic Distinction: Israel, Egypt, and the Invention of Paganism,” Representations 56 (1996). He repeats the idea in an article appearing Sarah Iles Johnston, ed. Ancient Religions (2007). Here he states in relation to what he calls "revolutionary monotheism", "This form of monotheism manifests itself in the first place as a negative or counterreligion, defining what god is not and how god should not be worshiped."

He goes on to say that "Biblical monotheism is based not on evidence but on revelation. It is not a matter of cognition but of commitment. It requires adherents to make a conscious decision to accept revealed truth and reject deceitful evidence. Natural evidence is debunked as seduction, as luring people away from revealed truth into the traps and pitfalls of the false gods, that is, the world" (pp. 28-29).

You might also read his book Moses the Egyptian: The Memory of Moses in Western Monotheism, where, if I remember correctly, he makes the same argument.

]]> By: Quercus http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-991 Quercus Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:47:14 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-991 Oh! And congratulations on your 1000th post! Oh! And congratulations on your 1000th post!

]]> By: Quercus http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-1006 Quercus Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:58:09 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-1006 Hello there, Hrafnkell. I'm still around, lurking.<br /><br />I was taken by the quote (paraphrase?) from Jan Assmann stating that "monotheism is counter-religion and that polytheism is religion." That is essentially my own point of view.<br />Which of Assmann's works says that, or at least supports it? I've never read him, but it seems that book might be the place to start! Hello there, Hrafnkell. I'm still around, lurking.

I was taken by the quote (paraphrase?) from Jan Assmann stating that "monotheism is counter-religion and that polytheism is religion." That is essentially my own point of view.
Which of Assmann's works says that, or at least supports it? I've never read him, but it seems that book might be the place to start!

]]> By: Cameron http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-980 Cameron Thu, 30 Jul 2009 04:25:13 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-980 Hraf, Granamyr, I will gladly take a swing at answering why I am still a Christian...but I plead your patience - I have a cumulative exam coming up at the tail end of a 3 week summer semester class in college - Astronomy - and at this point if I tackled that post, you would find me typing galaxy formation, chemical composition of the sun and the definition of a Parsec (3.3 light years for those of us who watched Star Wars all those years...) <br />Let me survive this, and I promise I will return to the question on Monday! I will say that so far I have an A, so I am not as panicked as some of my poor classmates! <br />Oh - and the celts elected their leaders too. *grin* Hraf, Granamyr, I will gladly take a swing at answering why I am still a Christian…but I plead your patience – I have a cumulative exam coming up at the tail end of a 3 week summer semester class in college – Astronomy – and at this point if I tackled that post, you would find me typing galaxy formation, chemical composition of the sun and the definition of a Parsec (3.3 light years for those of us who watched Star Wars all those years…)
Let me survive this, and I promise I will return to the question on Monday! I will say that so far I have an A, so I am not as panicked as some of my poor classmates!
Oh – and the celts elected their leaders too. *grin*

]]> By: Granamyr http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-978 Granamyr Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:37:13 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-978 Hey, H...wasn't it specifically the views of the Northmen that contributed the most to our democratic style? Representatives, taking a vote? You know the ole Althing...uh, thing? (:<br /><br />Cameron: Just my own thoughts. If you're accepting of other religious views that Christianity has traditionally condemned, why do you want to remain Christian? What does it do for you that perhaps other, more diverse deities can't? Just curious. (: Hey, H…wasn't it specifically the views of the Northmen that contributed the most to our democratic style? Representatives, taking a vote? You know the ole Althing…uh, thing? (:

Cameron: Just my own thoughts. If you're accepting of other religious views that Christianity has traditionally condemned, why do you want to remain Christian? What does it do for you that perhaps other, more diverse deities can't? Just curious. (:

]]> By: Hrafnkell Haraldsson http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-987 Hrafnkell Haraldsson Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:35:11 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-987 Cameron, thank you! My definition of Christianity is actually that of Christianity itself in the Nicene Creed, that Christianity is defined by the idea that salvation is through Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone. This makes many people who claim to be Christian, who believe themselves to be Christian, actually not Christian. Obviously, there are many who feel this definition is too limiting, since there are growing numbers of Christians who embrace ideas of reincarnation and who accept the possibility of other paths to whatever awaits us.<br /><br />My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that if you are a monotheist, you cannot even acknowledge the possibility of other gods, since by its very definition, monotheism claims but one. BUT, Porphyry made an attempt in the third century CE to create a place for Jesus in polytheism, claiming him to be a divine man, rather like Herakles, who is not quite a god but more than a mere man. So you could still "believe in" Jesus in some sense, or even worship him, and call yourself a Christian if you refuse to accept the Nicene Creed.<br /><br />The problem for the Creed and it's narrow definition is that it's late. It dates from the Fourth Century, after all, when 400 years of "Jesus followers" had lived and died. Besides which, Christian only means "messianist" so really, if you accept Jesus as some sort of messiah (and there are all kinds) then you could call yourself a Christian as well. But if you leave out the messiah, you can't really be a Christian because you'd be leaving out what gives the term its very meaning. Without a messiah you'd have to be a Jesus "something else", I suppose.<br /><br />Just my two cents there. Terms are a terrible thing and it's almost impossible to arrive at terms or definitions that are satisfactory to everyone! Cameron, thank you! My definition of Christianity is actually that of Christianity itself in the Nicene Creed, that Christianity is defined by the idea that salvation is through Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone. This makes many people who claim to be Christian, who believe themselves to be Christian, actually not Christian. Obviously, there are many who feel this definition is too limiting, since there are growing numbers of Christians who embrace ideas of reincarnation and who accept the possibility of other paths to whatever awaits us.

My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that if you are a monotheist, you cannot even acknowledge the possibility of other gods, since by its very definition, monotheism claims but one. BUT, Porphyry made an attempt in the third century CE to create a place for Jesus in polytheism, claiming him to be a divine man, rather like Herakles, who is not quite a god but more than a mere man. So you could still "believe in" Jesus in some sense, or even worship him, and call yourself a Christian if you refuse to accept the Nicene Creed.

The problem for the Creed and it's narrow definition is that it's late. It dates from the Fourth Century, after all, when 400 years of "Jesus followers" had lived and died. Besides which, Christian only means "messianist" so really, if you accept Jesus as some sort of messiah (and there are all kinds) then you could call yourself a Christian as well. But if you leave out the messiah, you can't really be a Christian because you'd be leaving out what gives the term its very meaning. Without a messiah you'd have to be a Jesus "something else", I suppose.

Just my two cents there. Terms are a terrible thing and it's almost impossible to arrive at terms or definitions that are satisfactory to everyone!

]]> By: Cameron http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-976 Cameron Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:25:00 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-976 Wow...1000 posts! I just started my blog 2 months ago, and I cannot imagine reaching that point or where my life's journey will be when I get there! Way to go! <br />I think you hit the nail square on the head with the "dysfunction in religion" direction. I would be horrified, am horrified, at the Catholic advice here, except that I have seen it far too often in other fundie denominations. If you remember Bloom County and Opus, well, Dandelion break, brb!!!<br />I have to ask...and I have the feeling I am so-o-o going to regret this! LOL! - everything you say about Christianity's blind, monolithic, fundamentalist, hate mongering behaviour is true, true, true...<br />But what do you do with people like me - who identify as Christian, but are not exclusively monotheistic, who is pagan as well, and find great comfort in both identities. I am not a true Christian? Perhaps I am not, by the definition you hold to of Christianity. Thats an odd feeling. I am enjoying your blog, glad I found it, and will continue as your faithful Episcopagan reader. Hang in there...can't wait to see post 2000! LOL! Can we hope the world may change just a little before then? Maybe... Wow…1000 posts! I just started my blog 2 months ago, and I cannot imagine reaching that point or where my life's journey will be when I get there! Way to go!
I think you hit the nail square on the head with the "dysfunction in religion" direction. I would be horrified, am horrified, at the Catholic advice here, except that I have seen it far too often in other fundie denominations. If you remember Bloom County and Opus, well, Dandelion break, brb!!!
I have to ask…and I have the feeling I am so-o-o going to regret this! LOL! – everything you say about Christianity's blind, monolithic, fundamentalist, hate mongering behaviour is true, true, true…
But what do you do with people like me – who identify as Christian, but are not exclusively monotheistic, who is pagan as well, and find great comfort in both identities. I am not a true Christian? Perhaps I am not, by the definition you hold to of Christianity. Thats an odd feeling. I am enjoying your blog, glad I found it, and will continue as your faithful Episcopagan reader. Hang in there…can't wait to see post 2000! LOL! Can we hope the world may change just a little before then? Maybe…

]]> By: Hrafnkell Haraldsson http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-969 Hrafnkell Haraldsson Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:37:19 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-969 Uncensored, I can't multitask either. Recipe for disaster, speaking of cooking. I agree with both you and Granamyr that not all religions are deserving of respect. I still agree 100% with Jan Assmann that monotheism is counter-religion and that polytheism is religion. I cannot respect a so-called religion whose entire purpose seems to be to eradicate all thought outside its own. Monotheism = Totalitarianism Uncensored, I can't multitask either. Recipe for disaster, speaking of cooking. I agree with both you and Granamyr that not all religions are deserving of respect. I still agree 100% with Jan Assmann that monotheism is counter-religion and that polytheism is religion. I cannot respect a so-called religion whose entire purpose seems to be to eradicate all thought outside its own. Monotheism = Totalitarianism

]]> By: Hrafnkell Haraldsson http://aheathensday.com/2009/07/one-thousand-posts-and-counting.html#comment-972 Hrafnkell Haraldsson Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:34:37 +0000 http://uncajoe.org/domains/aheathensday.com/?p=997#comment-972 Cheeks, well said. Christians in this country like to pretend that Democracy has Judeo-Christian origins but Judaism was never big on individual human rights - after all, being an individual and trying to exercise free thought got you accused of "whoring after foreign gods" and had unhappy consequences. And it was Pagans who invented democracy, which is not at all surprising. It's hard to even imagine monotheism giving birth to something that encourages not being part of a hive-mind. Cheeks, well said. Christians in this country like to pretend that Democracy has Judeo-Christian origins but Judaism was never big on individual human rights – after all, being an individual and trying to exercise free thought got you accused of "whoring after foreign gods" and had unhappy consequences. And it was Pagans who invented democracy, which is not at all surprising. It's hard to even imagine monotheism giving birth to something that encourages not being part of a hive-mind.

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