2009
Two weeks! Incredible that I haven’t posted in two weeks. That might be a record. But yes, I’m still alive.
I’ve a question: given that we Pagans are nature types, that is, friends of the environment, and assuming pests (neighborhood dogs, cats or wildlife) are destroying your yard/garden/landscaping, what’s the appropriate response?
First of all, as a Heathen, I’d placate the land wights by leaving offerings. If you read the sagas, you’ll see the practical-minded Norseman wanted the wights working with him (or at least not against him).
But then there is the question of other methods, such as chemical repellents, ultrasonic devices, or even barbed wire or moats (I’m leaving nothing out having seen how pernicious and persistent our friends in nature can be!).
Now, before you get all excited about some Heathen murdering wildlife with teller mines and concertina wire, I’m not using those things. I’m not even sure where you’d get a few hundred feet of concertina wire. I’m not even sure it would work.
Obviously, we want to work with nature whenever possible. Of course, you have to realize that simply digging up the ground to make a garden, or cutting down trees or clearing weeds to create a garden, you are messing with the natural order. But it’s a little late to quibble: if you live in any structure of any kind, you’ve already violated nature to one degree or another. Veggie extremists might want to consider this before jumping all over us meat-eaters. None of us are innocent. None of us can exist without coming into conflict with nature, and that’s a simple fact.
Obviously, our ancestors didn’t have to consider the question of chemicals or ultrasonic devices. Personally, I see nothing wrong with either, other than the fact that in my experience, chemicals don’t work well. I have an ultrasonic device now that I am going to install to test on my new landscaping. I’m tired of it being dug up. It’s rubber mulch (shredded tires) for crying out loud. Why do critters even want to sniff around it?
I’ll let you know how the ultrasonic repulsor beams work. With luck, it will keep the stray dogs out of my yard too (note to assholes who regularly walk their dogs up and down the street so they can shit and piss in neighbors yards instead of their own).
I’ve even thought of being a true Heathen and just going out and peeing around the protected area. Have to do that at night but you can’t get more natural than that. And it’s human scent. Wildlife should back off. I don’t know about dogs and cats. But damn, isn’t that about as Heathen as you can get, marking your territory? I haven’t tried it yet, but if the ultrasonic repulsor beams don’t do the trick, I might have to take the manliest step a Heathen male can take.
And yes, you can also put up regular fences to provide groundhogs with exercise to dig under, and you can plant things along the edge of the garden (inside that fence) to give the critters something to chew on so they leave the truly important stuff alone, but how is that going to protect your crops from the birds? Yes, the birds. We live in a three-dimensional world, folks. You can’t neglect the sky. Death from above. Netting? Camouflage netting, perhaps? But then how does the sun get through to the crops?
There is always hydroponics, I suppose. Just grow the stuff in your basement (and I mean legal stuff here, you clowns). But it isnt’ the same, not getting out under the sun and breathing the fresh air. Something special about that. But if you try it, be prepared to wage war against the nature we all profess to love and to want to share the planet with. Because folks, it’s not playing nice. It doesn’t have the same rules and restrictions we place on ourselves. And remember, if you F- with nature, nature will always win.
(PS: the country boy neighbor simply traps the groundhogs and then takes them across the street and shoots them. No word on whether or not he also eats them. I’m not sure how they do things in the country and I’m not sure I want to ask, if you get my meaning [Disclaimer: I've many relatives who are country folk and none of them are like this asshole, so please, country-folk, take no offense at my remarks. They're meant to be a sarcastic response to this clown's comments about "being a country boy" and using that as some excuse to be an asshole]).
Ultrasonics work with some critters, especially the digging kind. Plastic owls or bits of shiny crap on lightweight string that blow around in the slightest breeze will run off most birds, unless you have strawberries. I have seen birds risk life and limb for a strawberry. Put netting over the strawberries while they ripen.
The biggest deterrent to dogs is to confront the owner.
Don't piss on the corners of the property….some wildlife biologist wrote a book about his adventures which included a long chapter on getting into a pissing contest (quite literally) with a wolf. The wolf outlasted him.
Ditto on the dog deterrent. Stupid owners. Or get your own big dogs to keep other critters away. Works great here. I also feed a stray cat who lives in the garage and keeps the bunnies out of the veggies. Aaand… this might sound backwards, but I have a bird feeder hanging right in the middle of the veggie garden. It's the busiest "diner" on the block, but the birds never, ever bother the veggies.
Hmm, ditto on the peeing idea too. The "boys" here pee behind a tree in the back all the time, and it has never deterred any pests from coming into the yard from that way.
It's a great question you pose, how a Pagan "ought" to deal with outdoor pests.
Wish I could offer some help but I have, to my shame as a Pagan, a very black thumb and an inability to grow anything that isn't virtual.
Sounds like Celestite and Chell both have a better grasp on things than I could hope to… Best of luck tho.
Animal agriculture causes more destruction of the Earth and our environment than if we switched a vegan way of life. Plus it is one of the largest contributers to global warming. Just because we can't be perfect doesn't mean we should go with whatever else happens to be destructive. A vegan driving a hummer is better for the Earth than a meat eater riding a bike.
So long as the means is a deterrent and not harmful to anyone I don't see a problem with any way you might choose. I was happy to see your post. I was wondering if things we OK. Take care! (:
Thanks for your feedback, everyone. Some good ideas. The owners are marginally helpful. There is one big pitbull that runs loose and it takes the city half a day to come looking for a loose dog…by then it could be in New York. A couple of the smaller dogs I'm not even certain about…
I'll try the bird feeder and "crap" solutions hanging in the garden. Sounds like the pissing idea is a bad one though I still think it is very "Heathenish"
I don't think we have any wolves here but we have everything else.
Gran, you sound like you've gone radical vegetarian. That's fine – it's your choice and your right – but in my experience and in my opinion, radical vegetarians can be as dogmatic and condemning as any Christian. And they tend to spread a lot of untruths, for example, the claim that humans are vegetarians by nature – they're not, they're omnivores, as any scientist will tell you. So I have to respectfully disagree with your claim that we'd all be better off – and the planet would too – if we were all vegetarians. We don't have multiple stomachs like cows to handle that vegetable matter, for one thing.
Oh, and any agriculture pollutes. Farmers put tons of phosphates into the soil every year. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I'm figuring that won't change any depending on who they're growing the crops for, people or animals. My whole point is that all of us, ALL OF US, pollute the planet and violate nature just by the fact of our existence. We can limit our footprint, but we can't eliminate it.
"We can limit our footprint, but we can't eliminate it."
Exactly. Being vegan is a huge step toward that admirable goal.
I don't consider it "radical" to not want to harm other living beings when and if I don't have to. I consider that basic ethics 101.
Please don't generalize about veg people, H. Yes, *ALL* groups have their fundies. Including Heathens. I'm sure you've had to put up with more than a few, "So you're a Nazi right?" Because a few asshole Heathens are about that.
I have wanted to switch over to being vegan but I always end up becoming anemic…
It's good to see you posting, Hrafnkell…I sent you a request on FB…I've been itching to show you a debate that has been going on concerning "In God We Trust" on currency…I posted a bit on my blog.
Miss your insight.
Glad to see you back!
Last year in our garden, we had an over abundance of tomatoes that evidently did not get the memo that there was a drout on and that we were under water restrictions. We ate tomatoes. We gave away tomatoes. I got my restriction on how many fried green tomatoes I could make lifted – the year before, I went fried green tomato happy, and was severely informed that from now on I had to let SOME of them ripen for the Goddess' sake! – and the freaking plants were still out running us. Then I noticed bites being taken out of the tomatoes (which were over our heads) way high up. I was puzzled as the support system for the plants was not going to hold any amount of weight. Checked the ground. Checked the bite marks on the tomatoes in question. Came to the conclusion that deer were nibbling on the tomatoes (which I didn't know they would do.) I actually cheered the damn deer on! Have at at it, brothers!
We STILL wound up buried in tomatoes! Solved the cutworm problem in the strawberries, by putting the strawberries up on little rocks or blocks of wood as they grew and ripened. For some reason that stopped thr cutworms.
Haven't noticed too much bird pillage, however, we have red tailed hawks in the area – they may be dining on the other birds – balance of nature there. Same for rabbits… See them all the time. Never had a problem. Of course…we are haybale gardening. Which means that instead of planting in the ground,we are planting into the top of a hay bale. I have to wonder if the raised venue keeps some of the raiding dowm. We also have grey foxes in the area (beautiful!)and I have heard coyotes singing and seen a pair once not far from our neighborhood. So there again, our wildlife may be providing it's own check and balance. Check out the haybale gardening http://knol.google.com/k/thomas-andrews/straw-bale-gardening/wi0h3zln6mir/2# ! It works great and is not very intrusive on the land. We have had virtually no weeds, and I have to wonder at the lowered level of pest problems. Our bigger garden is a ring of hay bales stacked two high around a tree stump. We filled in the whole area, right up to the stump with earth…Fantastic! When the haybales began to slump and break down, we got our neighbor's sectioned up tree that he had had to take down, and used the wooden chunks, still with the bark on, to ring the circle. Looks great! Its also where we leved offerings for the fey.
The only thing that gets fugly is the war on the fire ants! (and even then we check our "pesticide" for environmental impact. It works pretty good, though not perfect. I am sure that if we got something with more chemical authority we might actually stop the little terrors – but we just won't do that.
As for pissing on the property corners…I have heard pros and cons…as far as I am concerned, it sounds like enough fun that any abled bodied male Heathen ought to go for it, irregardless of results!
Good luck!
Goodness gracious, Gran…you wholesale condemn the moral compass of every meat-eating person on the planet, and then accuse me of generalizing? I like you, I have always considered you a friend, but think about what you're saying. You come on here, my blog, knowing I'm a meat eater,and tell me I'm immoral…you don't expect some kind of reaction?
Besides which I only spoke of that which I have direct experience with. I didn't generalize since I didn't say ALL vegetarians: "in my opinion, radical vegetarians can be as dogmatic and condemning as any Christian." Notice "can be". I did not say "ALL radical vegetarians are dogmatic and condemning as any Christian."
You seem to place yourself on some moral high ground because you don't eat meat. You have to expect me to challenge that assumption and that claim. Though you are welcome to your beliefs, you will have to accept that I do not agree that you are better than the rest of us.
Do you wear leather of any kind? Belts, shoes, purse? If you wear anything that any animal agriculture depends upon, or if you drink milk, eat cheese, etc, you are a "sinner" right along with the rest of us – and again, I have known radical vegetarians who somehow find this acceptable.
Cameron, thanks! The thing is, there were no birds last year, least ways, not eating the crops. They left the garden alone. It was rabbits, groundhogs, etc, who were the problem. Now that the garden is safely fenced, different problems have surfaced.
At least we don't have fire ants here. I have more than my fair share of carpenter ants because of all the trees and old stumps on the property but no fire ants. If they ever move this far north, I'm moving further north. My brother lived in San Antonio and he introduced me to those little bastards when I visited. He was a firm believer in Sevin dust.
Yeah…I've said it before, I already live further south than any Scandinavian ought to live
But thanks for all the tips. I"ll have to check out that site. Your garden sounds interesting!
You took a dig at veg people and I responded.
"Veggie extremists might want to consider this before jumping all over us meat-eaters. None of us are innocent. None of us can exist without coming into conflict with nature, and that's a simple fact."
You made the gross assumption that veg people think they're perfect and all our ways smell of roses. You are in error about our opinions and it needed to be addressed. Don't get all up in arms over me correcting you. Think about what your saying *about* veg people and not invite correction.
I guess we can't say we're better than murderers then?
Hrafnkell, you're woefully ignorant about veganism. Brilliant in other areas, not that one.
List one quote from me in which I judged you as a person? Go re-read them. Not once did I judge anyone. I simply stated the facts regarding animal agriculture. You read what you wanted into my words.
I disagree, Gran. I 100% disagree and you are in error where your facts are concerned.
I did not take a dig at "veg" people. I made an accurate comment.
As for my alleged claim that all vegetarians feel they're superior, you are the one who said you and other vegetarians are morally superior to meat-eaters…what kind of comment is that? And how does that translate into the claim you make for me?
As for being ignorant about vegetarianism, I disagree. I've made no blanket statements regarding vegetarianism or vegetarians. I have, however, read articles on radical vegetarian sites, including the things you've posted on your blog. I find much of it to be scientifically unsound, including especially the claim that humans are not omnivores. We are. Much of what I read on such sites is nothing more than 19th century pseudo-science.
What I don't understand is the need for radical vegetarians to condemn those who eat meat. Meat eaters don't generally condemn vegetarians or try to prove that vegetarianism is unnatural. But radical vegetarianism seems very "Christian" in its outlook. Much of it is condemning and intolerant.
If you want to imagine by my saying this that I am condemning all radical vegetarians (or indeed, all vegetarians) feel free, but I have never, NEVER said "ALL" in my comments.
If people want to pretend that eating only vegetables makes them morally superior, or that they somehow cause less pollution, that's fine, but I think both claims are bullshit, and I will always call bullshit as I see it.
In the end, we can disagree all day and all night (and we will on this subject) but if you want to argue with me about this (or anything else) please do not accuse me of saying things I never said. The record is there for anyone who wishes to view it.
Your straw-man arguments are only put up to distract people from the issues of animal suffering and the damage animal agriculture is doing to the planet. Notice that? Let's recap:
"Animal agriculture causes more destruction of the Earth and our environment than if we switched a vegan way of life. Plus it is one of the largest contributors to global warming. Just because we can't be perfect doesn't mean we should go with whatever else happens to be destructive. A vegan driving a hummer is better for the Earth than a meat eater riding a bike."
And:
"I don't consider it "radical" to not want to harm other living beings when and if I don't have to. I consider that basic ethics 101."
And from these two statements you some how managed to accuse me of judging *you* personally? Is the person who uses cloth bags judging you too even though, we know for a fact that choosing cloth bags over plastic/paper reduces waste? Clearly not. Eating vegan and supporting a veg way of life is scientifically proven to be better for the Earth. If that makes you uncomfortable and feel "judged" it is *you* judging yourself and maybe you should re-think your way of life. Science holds up the mirror of how our choices affect things. We don't always like what we see. But we can change.
You have managed to entirely lose me, Gran. What "Straw man" arguments?
First, let me say, I see this "straw man" crap all too often online. People have fallen in love with the term and half of them probably don't even know what it means.
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
I have made no straw man arguments. I don't make straw man arguments. EVER. I take what the other person says. I cite the other person's words. And I respond to them.
You accuse me of taking your two comments as being condemning. They are. You did not just judge me personally, but all who are not like you. Do you realize how biblical that sounds, Gran? You are not one of us. Us vs. them. You are outside the covenant of veggie eaters. You whore after meat. That is what you sound like. You have taken the conservative Catholic outlook and welded it onto radical vegetarianism. I don't need straw man arguments to show you put vegetarians in a morally superior position. You did. Read your own words and stop accusing other people of saying what you said yourself.