The Life and Thoughts of a Modern Day American Heathen

My Big List of Bible Contradictions

I thought I’d throw this out for consumption and comment: It’s My Big List of Bible Contradictions, including those I put into my last post. You can be certain that this list is not exhaustive and I’ll do what I should have done before and include my footnotes. These should probably be put into some kind of order but I haven’t had time to do that so apologies up front:

The Bible is full of contradictions great and small and we have touched on these in the course of our examination of Christianity’s myths. These contradictions are disturbing because Irenaeus assured us in the second century that “the scriptures are perfect because they were uttered by the Word of God and his Spirit.” If this is so, if Irenaeus did not lie, then the Christian God if one flawed individual, or perhaps suffers from a multiple personality disorder or even dementia. Read my list below; check it out for yourself. Do you see a coherent whole inspired by either “perfect” God or his spirit?

Some apologists still cannot admit to this lack of perfection; it is a violation of their faith in the Bible as the inerrant word of God. But the contradictions are there for all to see. Others will now argue them away by asserting that “These are not contradictions in substance.”[1] Of course, this is an entirely inaccurate assertion. Whether or not man is saved by Works or Faith seems like a substantive issue, doesn’t it? This is not simply a problem of chronology but the fate of man’s immortal soul. So there are greater and lesser problems to be found. Some make little difference either way; others are of a more critical nature. And as always there is the reminder that where one mistake exists, others are likely also. We can identify some, but can we identify all? If the books of the Old and New Testament are so full of contradictions and mistakes, how comfortable can we be with regards to the accuracy of the rest?

The Creation Story

* The Book of Genesis presents us with two mutually incompatible creation stories. From 1-2.4 we have the standard 7-day model with which we are all familiar. But from 2.4 on we are given an entirely new scenario, one which sees the creation of Adam and Eve (remember, they were already presumably created along with all the other men and women in 1.26, where he enjoined them to “be fruitful and multiply.” Of course, this turns out to be very bad advice indeed, since this is the sort of nonsense that gets them in trouble in the second story. As Robin Lane Fox observes, the second story “flatly contradicts the first.” In the second story, man precedes vegetation but in the first, vegetation appears at 1.12 while man only arrives at 1.26 – a neat trick. Remember too that the Garden of Eden exists only in the second story; it is not present in the first, an interesting omission. Obviously, the two stories date from different times, but both before 400 BCE, after which date a third writer combined them into a single account. “Probably,” as Lane Fox concludes, “the two stories had become too well known for either to be excluded.”[2]

Will the Real Ten Commandments Please Stand Up?

* Even the famous 10 Commandments so popular with Right Wing Christianity in America are not so cut and dried as people seem to think (including those self-same Right-wingers. The 10 Commandments are given twice, once at Exodus 20 and again at Deuteronomy 5. If that isn’t confusing enough, we are also presented with three mutually incompatible sets of laws (Exodus 20-23; Leviticus 11-27; Deuteronomy 12-26). In any case, as Lane Fox rightly observes, “There are not ten, and they are patently not original commands which were given to Moses by the mountain god of Sinai.” Though they may originally date from around the 10th century BCE, “the versions which we now read have been enlarged and varied and their final form may be as late as c. 550 BC.”[3]

How Many Exiles?

* Everyone is familiar with the story of the Babylonian capture of Jerusalem and the exile of Jews to Babylon. However, what is seldom mentioned is that the Old Testament gives three separate figures for the number of Jews sent into exile. Jeremiah (52:28-30) gives the figure of 3,023. 2 Kings 24.14 says 10,000, and 2 Kings 24:16, 8,000. All three numbers cannot be true. And why does 2 Kings contradict itself in the space of only two passages?

Jesus’ Birth

* We are given two different events by which to date the birth of Jesus. Unfortunately, they are mutually contradictory; both cannot be true. The first is the account in Luke. Luke tells us that the Annunciation (the foretelling of Jesus’ birth) takes place in the reign of Herod (1.5), who died in 4 BCE (some scholars place his death a year earlier). Her pregnancy must have been of unusually long duration though because at 2.1 Luke tells us that Jesus was born when Quirinius took his census, which was 6 CE. Therefore Jesus was in Mary’s womb for a good 10 years, possibly 11! Matthew (2.1) tells us that Jesus was born “during the time of King Herod” and there is no mention of Quirinus. The simple problem is that the taxation could not have taken place during Herod’s reign because under Herod they were Jewish, not Roman citizens. If the taxation took place after Herod, a problem still remains, because Galilee was not part of the Roman province over which Quirinus oversaw the census. No Galilean would have been compelled to leave an independent Jewish tetrarchy in order to be taxed in an adjoining Roman province.[4] In the end, the very fact of these inconsistencies is testament to early Christian ignorance of the details of Jesus’ birth and of the relatively late date of their written accounts.

Miracles

* In the Synoptic Gospels, Jesus spurns the use of miracles to reveal his identity (ex: Matt 11:38; Matt 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-18). But in John, Jesus performs miracles willingly, and in order to prove his identity (20:30-31; 5:15). We might also argue that in the earlier passages Jesus spurned the use of miracles, even rejecting Satan’s temptations to do so (to turn stone into bread), answering “Man does not live by bread alone,” but then reverses himself later in the same books in order to do just that: manipulate loaves in the wilderness to feed the multitude (Matt. 15.32-39; Mark 8.1-10). Suddenly, man does appear to live by bread alone!

Paganism

* In Acts 17:23-31 we are told that Paul’s view of Pagans is that they are not accountable for their beliefs. But in Romans 1:18-32, Paul says that Pagans are accountable for their beliefs.

Who are we to believe? What is the poor Pagan to do? This would appear to be one of those “substantive” contradictions Kreef & Tacelli assure us do not exist. Obviously, Paul’s view of Pagans was a rather dim one, but the author of Acts, writing at least a half-century later, was trying to present Christianity in a more favorable light to Roman authorities. Either way, for a religion which claims to have a lock on “Truth” this seems expose a very relativist position.


Paul’s Audience

* In Acts we are told that Paul’s sermons were addressed to Jewish audiences (18:4-11). But Paul himself repeatedly claims that his mission is to the Gentiles (1 Cor 12:2).

So who do we believe? Did he feel his mission was to the Gentiles or to the Jews?


Paul’s Visits to Jerusalem

* Who are we to believe? Paul in Gal 1:18-20 says he “saw none of the other Apostles except James the brother of the Lord” and adds in 2:1 that he did not “go up again to Jerusalem for fourteen years.” But Acts (9-12) describes a different career for Paul, including a visit to Jerusalem at the time of the famine in Claudius’ reign, 46-48 CE (11:28-30). He cannot have done both, be both away from Jerusalem and be present. Either Acts lies, or Paul does, and there seems no good reason to disbelieve Paul.

Raising of Lazarus

* In Mark 5:21-43 Jesus heals the young girl in private. But in John, in keeping with the use of miracles to prove his identity, Jesus heals her in public (11:1-44).

* In Mark, in another episode related to the raising of Lazarus from the dead, Jesus is delayed inadvertently (5:21-43). But in John, Jesus intentionally stays away until Lazarus dies, in order to make an example of his power (11:1-44).

Appearance of the Risen Jesus

* In 1 Cor 15:1f Paul gives his version of events. But in Luke 24:13 (and remember, Luke was an educated Greek speaker) Luke “shows a close similarity to the report of the appearance of the deified Romulus, Dion. Hal. II.63.3f, and Livy I.16.5f

Gentiles and Jewish Law

* This should be a no-brainer. We know from Galatians 2:11-15 that Peter disagrees with Paul in this regard. But Acts 15:6-11 says that Peter disagreed with Paul.

Mission to the Gentiles

* This is another easy one. Most Christians know Paul as the apostle to the Gentiles. He says he is, right there in Galatians 1-2. But if we turn to Acts 10-11, we see that it is Peter that starts the mission, and in Acts 15, Peter claims that no less than Jesus himself assigned Peter to this important task. If Paul lied about this, what else did he lie about? Conversely, if Acts lies, what else is Acts lying about?

The Meeting of Peter and Paul

* Acts 9:26-29 tells us that they met right after Paul’s adventure in Damascus. But Paul says in Galatians (1:16-18) that they met years later.

The Last Supper

* Mark 14:12 says that the Last Supper was the Passover Meal, or Pesher, but John 19:14 states that the meal occurred the day before Passover.

Healing Simon’s Mother

* Mark 1:30-31 says that before Jesus healed her before he was rejected in Nazareth, but Luke 4:38-39 has the healing occur after Jesus’ sermon in Nazareth.

Peter Called to Discipleship

* Here we have three different versions. Mark 1:16-17 says that this occurred at the outset of Jesus’ ministry. But Luke 5:1-11 says that some miracles occurred first, showing that Jesus had already begun his ministry. John 1:38-41 gives us an entirely new slant on events, claiming not that Jesus recruited Peter but that Peter went looking for and found Jesus.

Peter Recognizes the Messiah

* In Mark 8:29 Peter recognizes Jesus for what he is halfway through his ministry. But in John 1:41-42, Peter makes this connection at the very beginning.

Peter’s Name

* In Matthew 10:2 Jesus calls him “Simon who was called Peter” but a little later, in 16:17-18, Jesus gives Simon the name Peter as though he did not already have it!

Peter’s Hometown

* In Mark 1:21, 27 Peter is from Capernaum, but in John 1:44 he is from Bethsaida.

The Origins of the Law

* In Exodus we learn that God gave the law to the Jews directly. But Paul in Galatians (3:19) asserts that the law came not from God but through angelic intermediaries. This is obviously another substantive contradiction, since Paul’s argument was designed to show that the Law was unimportant. If, however, Paul was wrong and the Law was handed down to the Jews directly from the hand of YHWH, then it would seem inopportune, not to say unwise (to say the least) to disregard it. After all, according to Paul then, the 10 Commandments really aren’t all that important, are they?

The Temple

* In Acts the disciples of Jesus pray at the Temple, but John 4:21; 2:21 says that the True Temple is not in Jerusalem but is the body of Jesus. Another substantive contradiction, since the validity of the Temple as a center of worship is in question, and this is obviously a concern. Does Jesus replace the Temple or does he not?

Eschatological Fervor

* In Mark (10:37) John son of Zebedee has strong apocalyptic hopes, but in John 18:36 eschatological teaching is gone and the Kingdom is described as “not of this world.” Either John missed the boat or the teaching changed.

Paul on Circumcision

* In Acts 16 we see that Paul has Timothy circumcised to placate the Jewish Christians, but in Galatians 2:3 Paul refuses to allow Titus (who by the way is not even mentioned in Acts) to be circumcised to placate the Judaizers. He makes his point against circumcision again at 5:6-7. Was Paul afflicted by relativism or is one of our sources lying to us?

Did Paul go to Jerusalem?

* In Galatians 1:17 Paul says emphatically that he did not: “Before God, I do not lie!” (1:20). But In Acts 9:23-30 we are told that Paul went directly to Jerusalem to meet with the apostles. This is naturally a rather important issue, since it has been claimed that Paul’s teachings were in line with the teachings of the community led by Peter, then James. N.T. Wright, for instance, (cite)

Paul’s Trip from Athens to Thessalonica

* In Acts 17:15 and 18:15 Timothy and Silas do not accompany Paul, but Paul tells us in 1 Thessalonians that Timothy was with Paul in Athens, but was sent back to Thessalonica (3:1-2).

Paul’s Conversion

* Acts alone has three mutually incompatible versions of Paul’s conversion. These are to be found in Acts 9, 22 and 26. Which is true, if any of them? At least two must be incorrect. Did the author of Acts lie? Or did he perhaps not know? This is one of the more obvious sets of contradictions in the New Testament and it, among other defects, calls into question Acts’ historical reliability.

The Parousia

* In 1 Thessalonians Paul says that Jesus is coming back right away. His return is expected at any time. But in 2 Thessalonians this has changed to “other things have to happen first” (2:1-12). What happened? Obviously, the Parousia didn’t.

* In 1 Corinthians and also in 2 Corinthians, Paul argues that the resurrection has not already occurred (cf. Rom 6:1-6) but in Ephesians, a letter not considered by scholars to be genuine, Paul argues that they have already experienced the spiritual resurrection and are already “sitting in the heavenly places.” This poses no problems for liberal scholars willing to admit one letter is a forgery, but how do apologists reconcile the fact that one must be wrong if both texts represent the inerrant word of God?

Who Crucified Jesus?

* Who crucified Jesus? The Romans or the Jews? In the Synoptic Gospels it is clearly Pilate who ordered Jesus to be crucified, for instance Mark 15.16-20, though in all three cases blame is made to rest with the Jews. But in John 19.16 we are told outright that, “Then he [Pilate] handed him [Jesus] to them [the Jews] to be crucified.” Mark says that “he [Pilate] delivered him to be crucified” (15.15) which Brandon feels could be “due to Mark’s reluctance to admit that Pilate actually ordered the execution of Jesus”[5] but the episode which follows at 16.20 and the mention of the centurion commanding the detail in both Mark and Matthew (Matthew 27.54; Mark 15.39) demonstrate that it was indeed Pilate who ordered it and the Romans who carried it out. In fact the greatest contradiction is within John itself, where Pilate tells Jesus that he has the power to free him or crucify him and Jesus acknowledges this (John 19.10) yet John portrays Pilate as having no power at all, making such power lie with the Jewish people who decide his fate. A final contradiction in John is that it is Pilate who places the titulus on the cross (John 19.19), indicating the sentence, which is odd indeed if the Jews crucified him as John asserts.


Resurrection

* In the Synoptic Gospels we see that Jesus proves the necessity of resurrection by a reference to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But in John (11:25) Jesus is himself the resurrection and the life.

Church Hierarchy

* In 1 Corinthians, there are no church pastors in Paul’s churches – they are charismatic communities. But in 1 and 2 Timothy as well as Titus – all forgeries dating from a later period, the churches now suddenly have pastors and are “efficiently organized and structured” as Ehrman says.[6]

What explains this contradiction? History:

What would happen if the end didn’t come? Well, what happened in Corinth was a good deal of chaos. Eventually it became clear that the charismatic communities Paul had established were going to be around for the long haul. For any social organization to make it through the long haul, there has to be organization and leadership. In the generation after Paul himself had passed off the scene, his communities developed hierarchical structures in which there were established leaders of the churches. There were elders and deacons, for example. And there was one person with ultimate oversight, the pastor or bishop.[7]


Paul’s Theology and Means of Salvation

* In Acts 13:16-42 Christ’s death leads to forgiveness of sins. But in Paul’s epistles what we learn is that Christ’s death provides atonement for sins (a sacrifice made for the sins of others – “this atonement purchased a right standing before God” But forgiveness is being let off the hook altogether for something you’ve done, no requirements of payment. In Acts, sacrifice is required for forgiveness of the debt because this is Luke’s explanation for why Jesus had to die. Christ’s death here is an occasion for repentance. This is not the same as atonement, and this is an important theological problem indeed, not just a matter of peripheral details. [8] This is yet another of those substantive contradictions that are not supposed to exist, and a rather important one at that.

Paul’s Devotion to Jewish Law

* Acts 21-22 and 28:17 shows that charges against Paul are trumped up. Paul has done nothing contrary to the Law. But in 1 Cor 9:21 and 2:11-14 we see that Paul could live like Jew or a Gentile yet attacks Cephas for not living like a Gentile. In Gal 2:21 Paul tells us that if the Law is necessary, then Jesus died in vain.


The Ascension

* Which version do we trust? That in Luke 24:50f or Acts 1.9f?

Judas and the Reasons for Betrayal

* The recent publication of the Gospel of Judas not only did not solve the riddle of Judas, it added to it. For we have four different versions of Judas in the four canonical Gospels. In Mark 14 no motive is given for Judas’ betrayal of his master. Matthew 26 advances the story a bit: Judas did it for cash. Then Luke offers a version in which Satan himself was responsible. Finally, in John 12 it is revealed that Judas was himself a devil (6:70) and that Judas who was the group’s treasurer had been embezzling funds all along (12:4-6). The Gospel of Judas offers another explanation entirely, one that, as one scholar remarked, turned Christianity on its head. For in this latest Gospel account, Judas is not a devil, or in the service of the devil; he does not embezzle and he does not do it for money. He betrays Jesus because Jesus asks him to do so in order that he might be freed of his earthly existence.[9]

Was Jesus Flogged?

* Mark (15.15) and Matthew (27.26) present Jesus as being scouraged, as in before an execution, but in Luke (22.63) a beating is only of the type given to a man before his release. Though the beatings may appear the same in English, Lane Fox warns us they are not, as the words used in each case “are exactly chosen and their difference is supported in Roman law. One refers to the heavy beating which was administrered before a death sentence, whiel the other refers to a cautionary beating which was also recognized as a legal option.”[10] This does not prevent Christian authors from describing the beating as a severe flogging that opened up his flesh and caused severe bleeding and intense pain. However, by portraying events in this way, these authors are denying the validity of Luke’s account. An alternative, to describe both beatings, would be to deny both Gospel accounts by combining them and creating a series of events nowhere described.

Faith versus Works

In Galatians Paul writes “For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is (any longer) in force, but rather Faith working by love. You were running well. Who stopped you, that you did not obey the Truth? (5:6-7). In Galatians he speaks of his freedom from the Law and of Law as slavery (2:4-5). In Corinthians he writes again about his freedom from the Law, comparing himself to a runner in a race (1 Cor 9:24-26). In 1 Cor 8:7-11 and 9:22 he characterizes those who obey the Law as “weak”. Yet James says, “For whoever shall keep the whole Law, but stumbles on one (small point), shall be guilty (of breaking) it all (2:10). And most tellingly: “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him ‘Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,’ but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, ‘You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that – and shudder’ (James 2.14-19) and at 2:26, “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”

Both cannot be right, both Paul and James. Who is to be believed? Or will it be recognized finally that these are two entirely different theologies, Pauline Christianity and Judaism? This is the “Mother of All” substantive contradictions and for very obvious reasons. How is a Christian to get to heaven? Of necessity one of them must be wrong, and that doorway, if chosen, leads not to heaven but to eternal damnation.

Notes:

[1] Kreeft & Tacelli Handbook of Christian Apologetics (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1994), 215, who fail to mention any of these substantive errors in their meager collection.

[2] Robin Lane Fox, The Unauthorized Version: Truth and Fiction in the Bible (NY: Vintage Books, 1991), 15-23.

[3] Robin Lane Fox, The Unauthorized Version, 53-54.

[4] Herod’s death is dated by an eclipse of the moon dated to 12-13 March, 4 BCE. The date of the census is known from Josephus, Ant. 18.1 and from Cassius Dio (find citation), and there is nowhere any record of an “empire-wide” census such as that described in Luke. The Feast of the Annunciation is celebrated in Christianity on March 25.

[5] Brandon, The Trial of Jesus of Nazareth, 191, n. 124.

[6] Bart Ehrman, Peter, Paul and Mary Magdalene, 157.

[7] Bart Ehrman, Peter, Paul and Mary Magdalene, 159.

[8] Ehrman, Peter, Paul and Mary Magdalene, 143-144.

[9] For a discussion, see Bart Ehrman “Christianity Turned on its Head: The Alternate Version of the Gospel of Judas,” in Kasser, et al, The Gospel of Judas, 94.

[10] Robin Lane Fox, The Unauthorized Version, 292.

10 Comments

  1. Hmm, nice listing. I'll have to ponder a longer comment on some of these, since the topic itself has always fascinated me.
    Just to play Devil's Advocate though, Simon/Peter's name may just be a misinterpretation of the words into English. Saying "Simon who was called Peter" when I read this means he was simon, then was named Peter, but the naming happened in the past, similar to me recounting a hypothetical vacation to Disneyworld. "The Missourian, who was in Florida" type of phrasing. Semantics are tricky, though. :)
    Excellent post I'll be pondering for a longer comment tonight.

  2. Good stuff, H. I think it's important that people know these things are there. Most Christians, in my experience, are completely ignorant of the Christian scriptures as well as the Hebrew.

    I'm so glad I shrugged off that religion and returned to the simple worship of the gods the old way.

    I expect this thread to get stirred up. *grabs veg chips and soy drink* (:

  3. Maebius, thanks for commenting.

    It was suggested long ago by Clement of Alexandria (Titus Flavius Clemens) who died sometime between 211 and 216 that Cephas, that same Cephas Paul spoke of and who he claims to have confronted in Antioch and called a hypocrite, was not Simon Peter, but another who had the same name.[1] Clement was not alone. The second century work Epistola Apostolorum (Epistle of the Apostles) discovered in 1895, includes both Cephas and Peter among the Twelve[2] and a third century list generally but incorrectly attributed to Hyppolytus of Rome lists Cephas at 51st out of 70 apostles. There is some reason to wonder, after all. Any reader of the Pauline Epistles has doubtless noticed that sometimes Paul refers to Peter and sometimes he refers to Cephas.[3] At Galatians 2.6-9, Paul mentions both, Cephas and Peter, and there is no indication that two different individuals are under discussion. Here, Peter is the missionary to the Jews and Peter is one of the three “pillars” of the Jerusalem Community. Most scholars have dismissed the statement. Cephas is Peter; that much is plain, they say. But this argument was recently made again in scholarship by Kirsopp Lake in 1921. Lake points out that Peter receives only two mentions in the Corpus Paulinus while Cephas is named eight times (Peter: Gal. 2.7, 8; Cephas: 1 Cor. 1.12; 3.22; 9.5; 15.5; Gal. 1.18; 2.9, 11, 14). And as Lake says of our passage in Galatians, “To call the same man by two names in the same sentence is, to say the least, a curious device.”[4] Donald W. Riddle attacked the problem in systematic fashion in 1940 (finish Riddle) Lake’s argument was resurrected in 1990 by Bart Ehrman and refuted by Dale Allison two years later. Ehrman notes that the Codex Sinaiticus Syriacus, a document from the 9th century contains a list supposed to derive from Irenaeus which lists Cephas as “the fourth of the seventy” and says that he was stoned to death in Antioch. And there are other examples as well. As Ehrman sums up the ancient evidence, “from the early second century on, a number of sources maintain that Cephas and Peter were two different persons. Some of these sources claim that both belonged to the Twelve, others place Peter among the Twelve and Cephas among the seventy, yet others leave the matter unresolved.”[5] As Ehrman points out, we have only one primary witness, and that is Paul. All of our other sources date from much later, and furthermore, Paul is “the only writer from antiquity whom we know beyond reasonable doubt to have been personally acquainted with Cephas. Paul’s testimony must be construed as prima facie evidence and cannot be discounted because of what is said in later sources, written by those who did not know Cephas.”[6] And needless to say, we can reasonably suppose that being the case that Paul knew who and what he was talking about when he referred to Peter and Cephas as different people. The conclusion is obvious – and inescapable. Even so, Dale Allison argues that in the absence of “solid evidence to the contrary” we are “compelled to believe that Peter and Cephas were one and the same.”[7]

    [1] In Hypotyposes (Outlines), 5. Repeated by Eusebius, EH 1.12. The Hypotyposes no longer exist outside of Eusebius.

    [2] See Kirsopp Lake, “The Epistola Apostolorum,” HTR 14 (1921), 15-29.

    [3] This kind of issue can be obscured in some translations, such as the NIV, which renders “Peter” in both cases in Galatians 2.6-9, relegating the Aramaic “Cephas” to a footnote.

    [4] K. Lake, “Simon, Cephas, Peter,” HTR 14 (1921), 96.

    [5] Bart Ehrman, “Cephas and Peter,” JBL 109 (1990), 463-466.

    [6] Ehrman, “Cephas and Peter,” 473-474. Bart Ehrman has since changed his mind about Cephas/Peter (email to author, 6.5.06).

    [7] Dale C. Allison, Jr., “Peter and Cephas: One and the Same,” JBL 111 (1992), 495.

  4. Granamyr, thanks. I agree that most of them are ignorant of the scriptures. I've found this in discussion after discussion. Most Pagans/agnostics/atheists I know are more familiar with scripture than the average Christian. Glad you shrugged it off too!

  5. Concerning the "Mother of All substantive contradictions." Indeed Paul discussed the believer's freedom from the law in many passages of the Bible. It is clear that salvation comes through faith in Christ and not of works.

    Look closely at what James says. “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can SUCH faith save him?"

    A faith without works is not true faith. Good works is an external effect of genuine faith. James then continues his discourse on genuine vs. false faith. There is no contradiction in the theology of Paul and of James. In Ephesians 2:10 Paul says "created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

    This is not a contradiction. It is simple theology.

    For God's Glory.

  6. DJ, thanks for commenting. It is a contradiction. Only in theology can the problem be erased and that is by the simple expedient of insisting that there is no contradiction, whatever the evidence to the contrary. Nice try there, but it won't work. James was a Jew, as was Jesus and for Jews it wasn't about faith; it was about the Law, which Paul pissed on.

  7. James was a Jew, until he believed in Christ. Then he was, by definition, a Christian. He even became an elder in the Jerusalem church (acts 21:18). Nowhere in James' epistle did he speak about the Law. He wrote about faith, same as Paul.

    Paul was also a Jew. He even persecuted the new Christian church until his conversion on the road to Damascus. Then he was a Christian.

    Jesus was a Jew. Jesus is God. Jesus is the Christ.

    The Jews were always about faith in God and in the coming Messiah (Christ). The book of Hebrews makes that clear.

    There is a concept called hermeneutics. It is the way in which one interprets a text. Any text including this post. The problem is that you approach the Bible with you mind already made up. You see it as a contradiction because you already believe it is a contradiction.

    There is no contradiction. Your objections are a result of your ignorance.

  8. DJ, there is no evidence James ever "believed in" Christ. None. Read the Epistle of James. You'll find:

    • No reference to Paul’s view of Jesus as the Divine Son of God.
    • James’ assertion that “God is one” (2.19) leaves little room for Jesus as the Divine Son of God.
    • No mention of the Holy Spirit.
    • No mention of Jesus’ atoning death (compare 2 Cor. 5.5.14-15, 18-21)
    • No mention of Jesus’ resurrection.
    • No condemnation of the Law. Law and works are as important as Grace or Faith.
    • That ethical discussions draw on the Old Testament, not on examples from Jesus.

    Show me your evidence that James ever "believed in" Christ.

    My friend, I am not the one approaching the Bible with my mind already made up. That is you, and most other Christians.

    Keep trying.

  9. By the way, DJ, I wanted to let you in on a thoughtful quote from Jan Assmann, a German scholar, whose work I was addressing in another post:

    "Biblical monotheism is based not on evidence but on revelation. It is not a matter of cognition but of commitment. It requires adherents to make a conscious decision to accept revealed truth and reject deceitful evidence. Natural evidence is debunked as seduction, as luring people away from revealed truth into the traps and pitfalls of the false gods, that is, the world" ("Monotheism and Polytheism," in Ancient Religions, Sarah Iles Johnston, ed. 28-29).

    True believers do not live in an evidence-based world, DJ. Being told, when you sit down to examine the historical Jesus, that you are free to arrive at whatever conclusions you wish as long as they match what you already believe, is a rather weak claim to insight, and places you in no position whatsoever to suggest that I, or any other "non-believer" ignores the evidence.

  10. Excepts from James

    1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ

    Does this not imply James’ commitment (trust, belief in, faith) to Christ? See Paul’s similar statements in Romans 1:1, Philipians 1:1, Titus 1:1.

    2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience….6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.

    Chapter 2: 1 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality.

    James uses the word faith 17 times (by my count).

    1:17Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

    Calling God “Father” would be blasphemy for a Jew. The Pharisees attempted to stone Jesus because he called himself the Son of God, and referred to god as Father.

    2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;

    Jesus’ teachings, Mark 12:31 and Luke 10:27

    James 5:2 also seems to be a direct teaching of Jesus from Matt. 5:33-37

    2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.”Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

    What point was James trying to convey. If you break any one smidgen of the law, you are guilty of the whole law. All humans have broken the law and are therefore guilty. See Romans 7:7 and Mark 10:7 (notice Jesus’ treatment of the law as showing the rich man’s guilt.”

    The Holy Spirit was familiar to Jews as well as Christian. For example see Joel 2:28, Exodus 31:3, 1 Chron. 28:12

    As for your second post, I strongly disagree. I made an intellectual decision to follow Christ as my lord. My faith is based on the evidence in Scripture, in nature, in history, and in my own personal experience.

    Lunch break is over, will have to cut this one short.

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